The Gunks Cast
The Gunks Cast
#117 Lisa Berger - Director Ulster County Tourism
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Our guest today is Lisa Berger, Director of Ulster County Tourism. Lisa brings extensive experience in tourism, economic development, workforce development, marketing, and community partnerships to her role. She leads efforts to showcase everything that makes Ulster County special, from its incredible outdoor recreation and vibrant arts and cultural scene to its restaurants, lodging, attractions, and unique local communities.
Lisa is passionate about strengthening Ulster County's visitor economy while making sure tourism benefits the people, businesses, and communities that call the county home. In 2026, she launched the "Coffee with the Director" series to meet directly with residents, business owners, local officials, and tourism stakeholders and hear their ideas about the future of tourism in Ulster County.
Learn more and start exploring at Visit Ulster County
He's amazing. He says, I love the drunks, yes.
SPEAKER_02Yes. That's why he's my favorite friend. The rest of you are assholes. He's a great guy. Great guy. All right. So, and then we just talk about nonsense stuff. I like the name. And you grew up here.
SPEAKER_05I like the nonsense.
SPEAKER_02We're gonna hear all about it.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Oh, look at this, Jeff. 1985. Nice.
SPEAKER_02High school gym. It's a great one. Staring through the gray paper, baby. Alright. Don't you all right? Hey, welcome to Good Morning, everybody. Jeff, I'm going straight Ric Flair. I'm a wheeling, dealin', but limousine riding girl kissing. Woo! Sorry, everybody. I've had too much coffee. Damn, I guess so. Wait, Tom, could you snag my Ric Flair doll up there, please? I meant to put him on the microphone.
SPEAKER_01Folks, uh, Glenn had not only is a Ric Flair fan in in how he signs into the podcast or announces it, but at the table, we now have a Ric Flair action figure.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you know, I asked the kids at the pool, I'm like, you know who Ric Flair is? Like, never heard of him.
SPEAKER_01Well, yeah, I mean, it's you know, his time is coming gone.
SPEAKER_02Also said, You ever hear Evil Kneeval? Like, no. Paul Colgan?
unknownNo.
SPEAKER_02Weird Al Yankovic, yes. Yeah, I'm glad Weird Alright. Kids were like, I saw him in concert two years ago. Yeah. That's what kids were saying. I love him.
SPEAKER_01We just introduced uh my my daughter to Weird Al this summer. Yeah, it's great. So I'm trying to get it, I'm trying to play it more. I'd love to see him in concert. I never have.
SPEAKER_02I saw him last summer in concert about the woods. One of my friends was driving Ella home and Gangster Paradise was on, and they're singing Gangster Paradise, and she's like told me, she's like, I'm in the I'm listening, and I'm like, oh my gosh, Ella's singing Amish Paradise. Didn't even know that that was a song wasn't Amish Paradise. Anyway, we have an amazing guest. We have Lisa Berger here with us today. Lisa. Lisa, welcome.
SPEAKER_05Thank you for having me. It's good to be here.
SPEAKER_02Director of uh Ulster County Tourism. That's correct. Whoa. Wow. We are in Ulster County. So we're gonna get we're gonna get deep into some of the director of Ulster County Tourism.
SPEAKER_05Yes.
SPEAKER_02Wow, I can't wait to hear about all of this. Right? Because you've got a lot of stuff going on.
SPEAKER_05Sounds like a big title, I'll be honest with you. But really, what the job mostly entails is packing up things, putting it in a van and taking it to other places. Unpacking it up. Packing it back up. That's really the job.
SPEAKER_02That's it. Sounds like a lot tougher workday than Jeff. Wow, it's bam! I know you're busy.
SPEAKER_00Damn. So early in the cast, too. Hasn't even been a minute. Uh so tough.
SPEAKER_02So first off, Lisa, tell us about yourself. How'd you get here? Where'd you come from? Bro, because we're gonna have people to listen and they're gonna be like, what's going on here? Tell us about what's going on.
SPEAKER_05Absolutely. So uh as Glenn knows, I I grew up here, right? 64 years in Newport, born and raised.
SPEAKER_02And what's your maiden name?
SPEAKER_05My maiden name is Moriello. Uh as in the pool, people always ask.
SPEAKER_02Whoa.
SPEAKER_05And my brother Michael one time said to somebody, Yes, the pool belongs to us, so don't forget to pay. And he was only kidding.
SPEAKER_02You could pay right now to me. That's what he said.
SPEAKER_05That's exactly what he said. It was crazy. I was standing there. I looked at him like, oh my God, I can't believe you said that. But yeah, no. Um, I grew up on a 500-acre apple farm with uh two brothers and a sister, everybody very actively involved in sports and student government and all kinds of things like that. Um, we grew up my because my dad was an apple farmer, we were skiers. So, you know, he he didn't work during the winter.
SPEAKER_02So you guys were downhill skiers. So yes. What was your slope?
SPEAKER_05Well, we skied at a place that isn't around anymore. It's called High Mount. It's on the other side of Bel Air.
SPEAKER_01I I learned to ski at Highmount. Did you really? Yeah, I was like between like between like three and five. I learned to ski there. Because they had a little I loved High Mount.
SPEAKER_05I did too. My parents loved it.
SPEAKER_01Why did they close it down?
SPEAKER_05I was family owned and operated by another farmer, the Davenport family.
SPEAKER_01The Davenport's owner. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's sort of on the other side of Bel Air. It is. It is. If you're thinking of where Bel Air Mountain is. Yeah, I know where it is. The other basically the other side. I think you can even hike through still.
SPEAKER_02How'd you get up there? What'd you take 40?
SPEAKER_05You take 28 all the all the way. So it's just past Bel Air. And in fact, there's been this long plan to take part of that ski hill, deed it over to the state, and let part of it be open again. But I don't know if that's actually going to happen. As a director of tourism, I happen to know that that piece of property is for sale.
SPEAKER_02Now that's in green, or we're still in Ulster.
SPEAKER_05We're all in Ulster. It's hard to believe that that's still Ulster County. Ulster's pretty big. It it is huge. And um, yeah, they're looking actually to sell that piece as an independent standalone ski area.
SPEAKER_01That'd be so cool. It would be they used to have this uh, it was like a basically a daycare where your kid you could drop your kids and you could ski, and then the kids just hung out there, and every couple hours they'd suit you up, they'd take you in a little hill that's a rot toe.
SPEAKER_05I used to I used to be one of the people that taught those little yeah, you might have I might have been there. You might have been there. I might have been there. Yeah, look at that. Snow plowing.
SPEAKER_01Did you ever have a kid crying every time he took them out?
SPEAKER_05It happened all the time.
SPEAKER_01Going to ski, had to cry, had to pick them up.
SPEAKER_05Wet in his pots. Yes, had to pick them up off the snow.
SPEAKER_01But I think that's why we went all the time. So my parents were like, here, you take these animals and we're gonna ski for the day, and then we'd be out there. But it was a great idea.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01What a great place to learn to ski.
SPEAKER_05And then yes, it was fabulous. So yeah. So yeah, I've been here all my life and it kind of really works out.
SPEAKER_02When did you guys close a farm? Because it was now it's Apple Hill. Was it always Apple Hill? Or I want to say never saw, I just knew it was more yellow.
SPEAKER_05So um my when my brother Michael and Gene opened their retail the farm stand there, they're the ones who opened the farm stand, they named that Apple Hill. And my dad by now has been past for more than 10 years. So um Michael, the Michael's an attorney, he's the oldest of the four, and uh he still owns that. And they do a little bit of farming and and where is where is the farm stand? It's right on 32 uh across kind of from a big pond that when we were growing up we used to skate on.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, right past SUNY on if you're going out of town, it's on the left hand side. Oh, yes. Past SUNY. The hill though, yeah. It's called Oh, yeah, I know. The new apartment, little nothing.
SPEAKER_01So it's so interesting because I was driving by Pas there the other day, and I saw it was sort of getting set up for the season. Right. And I was like, you know, I've never been to this. And now the name sounds familiar because I'm the sign. I actually remember thinking, I was like, what a great sliding hill that is right there. Oh, it was supposed to be on 32 if you went a little too far.
SPEAKER_05But yeah, we did it with our kids. Michael and I did it with our kids up a little bit further. Yeah. So that they didn't wind up.
SPEAKER_02So they didn't go sailing on to 32. So you the farm's still opening.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, the farm's still cranking.
SPEAKER_02There's cars parked there. I'm sure right now there's packed.
SPEAKER_05Yes, yeah. They did they um so now it's the farm is operated by my brother Michael, his wife Jean, and their daughter Christine. And they basically run the retail and from the end of September all the way through um through the end of October.
SPEAKER_02Given the fire truck rides up to the top of the hill.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah, hay rides. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There you could still pick your own. They don't do pumpkins anymore. They've really limited it. Uh you know, it's it's hard.
SPEAKER_02It's a saturated market.
SPEAKER_05It is a saturated market. We shouldn't like it.
SPEAKER_02All right, well, I'm not gonna name the farm I went to. But we went there yesterday. People like, oh, let's go get pizza. And like, I'm like, weekend? What are you guys smoking crack? I'm gonna go there. But of course we went because everybody wanted to go, and it was fun, I had a nice time. But let me tell you something. It was out of control with people, and uh Yeah, but good for good.
SPEAKER_01It was because you want those places to be around and yeah, but I'm a grumpy old man.
SPEAKER_02I go pick apples for picking apples. I don't need to, I mean, hay ride great. You've noticed. Yeah, I don't need I don't need to get like, you know, a few obstacle course to go pick apples.
SPEAKER_05You know what you should have done though, honestly, Glenn, is um my husband and I drove up to Bel Air because they're doing their fall festival, yeah, mobbed with people, but you're at a ski hill and they're doing the gondola rides. So you get up to the top of the I'd love the gondola ride. Yeah, you get up to the top of the hill. They've got some picnic tables, they've got disc golf going on, but they don't care. You can walk back down if you want, you could spend as much time up there. So yeah, they really spread out all the people. It was a beautiful day. Oh my god, and the foliage was perfect.
SPEAKER_01I'm sure that's pretty cool that they're that they were doing that. I haven't I haven't thought about going up there in the off season to ride up to the top and hang out up there. It's a whole thing up there.
SPEAKER_05I mean, it kind of flattens out and yeah, they'll let you use your mountain bike now. Yes, which is amazing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I know that you can and they also are doing in the winter, they let you uh basically it you can walk up and ski down.
SPEAKER_05Yes, you can hike up, earn your turns. That's what they call it.
SPEAKER_01Crandell's always hiking up in the for sunrise. Yeah, and he skis down. Oh my god. He's an animal.
SPEAKER_02Listen, here's let me just never do that. Let me get back on the apple. Please. All right.
SPEAKER_05Let's go back to the apple.
SPEAKER_02Here's what your apple ramp? Yeah. Oh, please. So I noticed this is why I don't pick apples anymore. Because I noticed that Menard's Farm, a big, beautiful bag of apples, was cheaper in topps from Menard Farm than it was going to Menard's Farms and picking it. I'm like, why am I gonna pay almost twice?
SPEAKER_01Experience, Glenn.
SPEAKER_02I don't need the experience. Just want to eat the apple.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_02I've had my apples experience. I w I run through the orchards and stuff. I ride my buy. It's great. You know, I don't need to buy the apples there. Okay. I just go to topps. All right. All right.
SPEAKER_00Thanks for sharing that. That's gonna rub your chest. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Can we talk about something important, please? How about our guests? Yes. Let's find out about what's going on in Ulster County. Bunch of freaking jackasses. So you complaining about apples.
SPEAKER_01So you grew up already hung up. You grew up in New Paul's and you grew up on this amazing farm that's still in operation, family run. That's really cool. Yes. Um and uh that probably takes a lot of work. So kudos to your brother and family. You probably help out.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. I d I worked at the stand for a long time uh when my daughter was younger on on weekends, doing the U Pick, which is which back then was a deal. Don't get away.
SPEAKER_02I want to say, but the day it was like all More's on deck. Yeah, it was. I saw like distant cousins.
SPEAKER_05Yes, that's 100%. I'm like, who was that?
SPEAKER_02Like I hung out with Rachel. I was like, that's my second cousin three times removed. Right.
SPEAKER_05Cousin Matt. That's exactly it. And you're like, wait, he doesn't even have the same last name.
unknownYeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Someone was jungle. Yeah, yeah. Um so then how did you get into let's take us from that to sort of the the broad strokes into how you landed to what you're doing now?
SPEAKER_05So, you know, as is with so many things, I was working at Apple Hill Farm when the then director of tourism pulled in. It was fall, and he was like out seeing all the tour like tourism places, being like, okay, we're working for you, we're doing all this stuff.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And his name was Peter Carfano, and he drove away, and my mother looked at me and said to me, You know, that's a great job for you. You should do that job. And I was like, right, I'm never gonna get that job. I was a single parent working two or three jobs at the time. And um, but I thought about it. And what I found out was you could take civil service tests to get positions in government, and this is a county government job. So two tests came up, one for a sales and marketing coordinator and one for the deputy director. And on a whim, I took the tests and scored number one on the deputy and number, I think, two or three on the other one. So when there was an opening, they called me some interview for the deputy job. Not for the deputy. It was interesting. Back then, government was like, this is so now we're looking at like almost 20 year, 20 years ago. Government was trying to downsize, they didn't want to have two like manager positions in a small department of four. So they hired me because I scored one on the deputy, they hired me for the marketing job. And um you do you guys know Rick Remschneider? He writes for the he writes for the Daily Freeman.
SPEAKER_02The Remschneider that was a New Paul person, was it? Yes. Okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05His dad was a was a mayor, yeah, or a mayor. I think he was mayor of the village. Yeah. Colonel Remschneider. Remember that? Yeah, yeah. So anyway, the Colonel. Well, actually, Rick called him that. So uh his dad that, the colonel. So Rick Remschneider was the director of tourism. And um I was so fortunate to get that job. And then he and I had so many things in common, like both loving sports, and especially like high school sports. And my my entire career took off because of two lucky things. One, my mom said to me, Oh, you can do that job someday. And I thought, no, I can't. And uh, but took the test. And the second thing was there was a person in like leadership that had the same interests that I did, which was mostly the new Potts Huguenots. So it really worked.
SPEAKER_01So it really help you.
SPEAKER_05So uh he was he so what happened my career at the county is I worked as his, he moved me up within one year from being the sales and marketing coordinator to the deputy director. And from there, um, leadership in the county saw my abilities. And so Mike Hind came to me and said, you know, we really like you. We think that you should be the director of the office of employment and training.
SPEAKER_02Another new polls guy, Mike Hind.
SPEAKER_05And I was like, the Office of Employment and Training, that's like funded with federal money. You help people get jobs. It's kind of like I don't know anything about this. And what he said is, it doesn't matter. You're compassionate, you'll be good. So I ran that office for eight years and I and I loved it. It was so rewarding and so different. And then after that, I was tapped to be economic development director during COVID. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_04That's tough.
SPEAKER_05The worst, worst 15, 18 months of my life. I would never, I'd never go back to that job. And I would never, it was terrible. And then Rick was getting ready to retire. And Rick said to the then county exec executive, This industry's been hit harder than any other in the pandemic. There's only one person who can recover it for you. And she's in economic development right now. So they so they moved me over. Happiest day of my life. I was so happy.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I was so happy. So this is amazing. That worked out well for you, for all of us. Yeah, yeah. Now, what kind of things are you guys working on? Because Jeff and I were very involved with like stuff happening in the county.
SPEAKER_05Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02Take advantage of a lot of stuff the county offers.
SPEAKER_05So, you know, the tourism department is really focused right now on so wellness has been a buzz. It's something that people have talked about for a long time. But usually when you say wellness in tourism, you're talking about spas and that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_05Ulster County is looking at wellness in a whole different way. We're only doing it because we have such great resources here. For us, wellness is about getting outside into nature. It's an emphasis on biking and walking and hiking. It's about helping people with accessibility problems, whether it's mobility, visual, you know, hearing, whatever, whatever it is, whether they're neurodiverse, finding ways to include them in that. And then realizing that if we lean this way, this is the future of tourism in Ulster County. It will be sustainable, right? Because we aren't extracting from what makes us great here. We're actually trying to be additive in that we're trying to help people to use these resources, experience these resources in the right way. So that's really the whole way that that our department is moving with tourism. Would I say that everybody in the Hudson Valley is doing that? No. Uh, there are a lot of people who'd like to be Ulster County, but our assets are so amazing. Yeah. We're so lucky.
SPEAKER_02So I prov I promote and do several events, and Jeff does too, the kids SOS. But I have lots of cycling and running events that happen in and around Ulster County. I'm starting another one next October, which I'm trying to incorporate the name of Ulster County into it. What's it gonna be? It's a cycling event that's going to be. I picked the and my friend George picked the eight most difficult mountain climbs, like right in and around the New Pauls, this area of Ulster County, to cycle up. So I'm thinking of some sort of name like the eight gates of hell of Ulster County. Something like that. And I've already buzzed it to the cycle. It's like I can't wait, I'll sign up immediately. Oh my god, I love that. So I'll get a lot of people in that. So I'm trying to cool come up with a cool name. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Things like that, though, are the way I think that um athletic events are happening here. So there's somebody who lives in Woodstock who's an ultra-endurance runner.
SPEAKER_02We might know this person.
SPEAKER_05And he wants to do a 50-mile run around the reservoir. Do you know him?
SPEAKER_02Uh probably if you told me his name.
SPEAKER_05Um, I'm blanking right now. Nice guy. They own a store that's dedicated to outdoor athletics.
SPEAKER_02Ring a bell to you, Jeff. In Woodstock. I'm sure we know who this is.
SPEAKER_05I'm sure that you do. He is the night anyway, yeah. Yeah. So for us, that's a bit like that. Somebody saw that and was like, oh, I could do an ultra endurance race here.
SPEAKER_02I would say this. Yeah there's one endurance race in this county in the year, and it's Rock the Ridge.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_02Very pricey.
SPEAKER_05Yes.
SPEAKER_02Very elite. Nothing against preserve. They raise money, they're a great organization, but it's not for the faint of heart. It's like come with your checkbook and raise money, which is amazing. Right. Which kind of goes against the ethos of ultras, which are like it's 80 bucks. Right. So I think there's room for another, not to outrun the preserve when they do important work. Right. They're a great organ. I volunteer for them.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_02But there's room for another endurance on in this county.
SPEAKER_05I think what I like about it too is um it's showcasing something that's so unique. Like the reservoir here is just a destination. It it really is. It really is.
SPEAKER_02Many of my cycling events go to the reservoir.
SPEAKER_05Oh, do you? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02It's a destination. And people are blown away. They come up from New York City or Virginia or New Jersey at these events, and they go across the top of the dam and they're cycling. Like, I had no idea. This is unbelievable.
SPEAKER_0512 hamlets are buried underneath all that water. That that to me, I can never kind of get my mind wrapped around that. And when you're but when you're on that break up there and you look, you just think to yourself, my God, it must have been beautiful to live in here. Yeah. It must have been amazing.
SPEAKER_01Um so what are some of the things that in your position as director, what's the kind of the mission of Ulster County tourism? What is it you're you're seeking to accomplish?
SPEAKER_05We're tasked we're tasked with something very simple, and that is to bring outside money into the county in the form of sales tax and occupancy tax revenue. Okay. So we are like our mission is to speak to people outside the county and help them become aware of the county as a destination and then to encourage them to come and stay. Secondarily, what we also do is work directly with businesses here in the county that are hospitality businesses of any kind, and that includes bike shops.
SPEAKER_03Yep.
SPEAKER_05Um that do any that have a touch point with tourists at all to provide services and information that will help them be successful. So some of the services that I provide is um stuff that you might need to like create a business or expand a business. So I have all kinds of data that I can pull for people. Like I know I have air DNA data, I have mobile visitors data, I have uh ratings and review, I have something called placer, which will tell you this group of tourists did this and then went and did that, and then they went and did this. And that's helpful for people who want to open up a business.
SPEAKER_01So sure, to know how their their idea will connect in three different ways.
SPEAKER_05Right, right, right.
SPEAKER_02You know uh Rich Sudo and Craig Chapman. Yes, yes, so they're Craig owns New Paul's biking and I lead bike tours and hikes for them. Uh which is Brazil, they do a lot of good stuff, they ride canoes or kayaks, yeah. But they're like really deep into possibly rebranding because they want to expand out to a greater area, kind of like not just Newport, but like Ulster County. So they're thinking of like an upstate adventure.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, absolutely. So actually, Craig and his family are good I'm I'm ruining it here. They're gonna be featured in our next travel guide.
SPEAKER_01Oh cool.
SPEAKER_05They were um they were in a photo shoot we did on on River to Ridge. And um they might even wind up as cover people. So it's nice.
SPEAKER_02Well done. Maybe I leaked too much out of the bag so Riff Sudo listens to that. He's gonna be like dick, you told everybody about the upside of that no publicity is bad publicity. But that's a kind of jets.
SPEAKER_05But that's the kind of thing Glenn that I'm here to help with. Like anything that anything that I can help them with I'm here to help them with whether it's helping them with a business plan, helping them find grants that might help them, you know, expand, connecting them to other business services. And we even do trainings for people ourselves. So the accessibility work that we're doing um we've we're working with a company called Wheel the World the biggest accessible travel company in the world and they work one-on-one with our tourism properties to help them be more successful. We pay them they deliver the service so we don't have to know everything which is the key.
SPEAKER_01Where do uh where is the county get their funding for this?
SPEAKER_05So the our all of our budget comes from um county taxes. We're county department okay so the county does have an occupancy tax that is assessed on every stay 4% of every stay but the county has dedicated those funds to helping other people right there they they've dedicated that money to transportation and to housing um so they're using money that's coming in from visitors and then kind of helping the people who are here with that money. So that's so that's that's good.
SPEAKER_01That's what people want yeah yeah it is good I think that makes sense. It is good and does some of it get siphoned off for your department like you get to spend some of that?
SPEAKER_05So yes so we have a department of four um our budget is just over a million dollars but that includes salaries. So our our advertising budget is around six hundred thousand um and then the services I was just talking to you about like this gravel bike guide that we're developing that's all people let's talk about that a little bit we will talk about that but back to your point it it's um visitors spend $1.2 billion dollars annually in Ulster County $1.2 billion 1.2 billion with a B. B. Wow yes that's amazing it is amazing all throughout Ulster County all throughout Ulster County not just Newport.
SPEAKER_01Not just Newbults everywhere in Ulster County so Ulster County's got a lot to offer lots to offer right right mostly outdoor rec recreation so let's gotta be so let's talk about let's talk about the gravel talk about gravel is involved in this but before we do that we've got let's talk about the things right we've got tons of skiing in Ulster County right we got out we got Catsco Mountains yeah um the the hiking right the Catsco Mountains is hiking climbing climbing the the connected the connected rail trail system alone right so more than 250 miles of connecting right here.
SPEAKER_05Right well so that is our competitive advantage and I say it all the time nobody can touch us not even in this we have the greatest gravel riding in the country I challenge people to come here. I don't care oh we have no this is the best it's funny that you say that you know Juan from gravel bike guides is gonna agree with you and he's based in Colorado he thinks that we are the best people come out here from all over the world like this is the greatest gravel riding there is he said if he could move anywhere it would be the new pot.
SPEAKER_01Yeah of course he's a smart man so um real quick on the the the connected rail trail system um and and your involvement or what you can share. We've talked about this before um with one of our friends who came on Ian McGrew you might know and we talked about how we've got this great R to R and then the R River to Ridge and New Paul that connects and you can go south all the way to the city basically and then you can go a little bit you can go north and then and then eventually west um on the um the Shokan rail trail um but there's this weird spot in Kingston that's a m conglomerate or mix of of sidewalks and busy streets and is there any plan with the county to make a trail make a more permanent path it's hard to find through the city even if you're doing turns and whatnot you can get through the city without that you're on more of uh kind of like what they did in New Paul's here on Dubois like a more dedicated path.
SPEAKER_05We we agree right there is no way to ease there's no easy way to get to even the midtown linear path right which is which runs all the way through the green way or it's and that's one of the problems. It has seven different names right nobody has any idea what it is or where it is where it is and then and people on the Empire Street Trail are like whoa wait a minute what happened somebody pushed stop so yes this the the mayor of Kingston has been good about trying to figure out how to make those correction connections um kingston's a little bit difficult in that as everybody knows there's a tourist um railroad that utilizes part of the trail right right yep or Kingston could be the entire gateway to the cat skills as far as biking goes if they weren't you if we could figure out even shared rail plus trail in those areas but where where the Wakill Valley Rail Trail comes into Kingston needs a huge improvement for how to connect through to what's called the Kingston the the green line the linear path the whole yeah it it it really needs that that would be huge to connect and then to figure out how to share that space with the with the tourism or with the railroad that tourist railroad that little small section it's even is it is even two miles long I don't know. But I think that that's all it is yeah it's not the one that goes out to Kenco?
SPEAKER_01Yeah yeah that's it that's the one but I love it they've been talking about Kingston being this gateway to the Catskills for 30 years.
SPEAKER_05I know you know I feel like we're getting closer though okay definitely closer now than we were and you do know that um they're working on connecting from from Pine Hill down into Phoenicia. I do so that because there's a railroad there too. Well it it's been an old railroad right that's not being that's not being used right now. Yes so portions of it washed out couldn't be fixed. Yep. So that actually we're really looking forward to this six mile section that starts kind of at the base of Bel Air and goes into Pine Hill and down below which I only walked a small portion of it has this beautiful bridge and an incredible an incredibly hard downhill that I think and that is an S turn so this is happening. People will find that who's doing this is this OSI or the county is doing that and they have the plan already written and approved that would take them all the way to Phoenicia. So the goal within the next five years is to get from Pine Hill to Phoenicia. And then we can really look at how we go from Phoenicia to the Ashokan.
SPEAKER_01Right that would sweet yeah yeah now that's not too far it's just that that that space exists you just need to figure out how to get it right dedicated to that purpose.
SPEAKER_02Right yeah right yeah so just that that's easy what about and I hear O and W trail OSI was telling they're going from Kingston to Port Jervis.
SPEAKER_05Yeah that that's gonna that's gonna connect through in Orange County and I think that that's really important for Ulster County. And then OSI just bought what was once Mount Catelia a tiny little in uh Ellenville right in Ellenville right that is adjacent to Sam's Point. So you know I think that now's the time for everybody to talk to OSI and state parks about what kind of uses we can have there because state parks is very protective of that part of the park. They sure are very protective so um I think that we should all be talking to them because there there could be amazing opportunities on that former ski hill uh for gravel for mountain biking for all kinds of things.
SPEAKER_02So talk a little bit about let's talk about this gravel hold on let's talk about this gravel since we're on gravel about the Colorado connection. What's going on with that?
SPEAKER_05Yeah so three years ago um somebody who owns gravel bike guides that are nationwide the own the guy who founded it his name's Steven walked into our office he was in Kingston for a wedding and he said to us my God do you guys know what you have here? You have a system that rivals anything in Colorado which is where we're based and he handed me a bunch of his gravel bike guides like from some of the most incredible destinations in the world Moab I can remember getting the one from Moab and looking at it and saying he thinks that we're like Moab that's high praise. Yeah yeah yeah I was like wow so we started talking to them and then I finally got the money in my budget for this year and we've been working with them since the spring. So Juan Dela Roca who who some of you may have met has been here four times or five times to ride routes develop routes um we have a gravel bike guide that will have 10 routes in it features um the towns of Newpaltzendale Ellenville uh Kingston and Woodstock as possible destinations for people who might want to who want to explore gravel yeah but I think that what's really cool is that they worked with um people here to develop wasn't McGrew involved with taking video or something yeah and well so um the the owner of the bicycle depot the Juan Dela Roca is the person who writes the roots and writes the copy and he rides them and makes sure they're all right and he walked into walked into the bicycle depot and was just like uh you know so I'm doing this thing and they were great yeah connected him with other riders to ride routes like local people so that we don't put out something that local people look at like yeah nobody would do that. That's a good point. That's a really good point.
SPEAKER_02I'm glad you're being careful to do that.
SPEAKER_05Yeah yeah well we especially because the department we don't know this like I didn't even know until we started doing this that gravel bikes were different than mountain bikes than road I had no idea.
SPEAKER_01Yeah I I think don't think unless you're in the doing ride in the cycling community to lack of a better term people don't really understand that they don't understand it.
SPEAKER_05Yeah yeah yeah I had no idea so it's been a real joy to put this thing together we expect to have it to print by the end of October um Juan would like to come back here and do a ride with all kinds of with local bikers uh and to announce the guide and um we're not sure we're gonna get that in before the snow flies but we're trying I do a that's pretty cool yeah we can maybe have Juan on the show yes you can you can oh yeah and uh that'd be cool also lots of local people I lead a a Wednesday morning gravel ride every Wednesday morning at 8 or 9 a.m called the geezer ride oh my god so fun that would be great there's usually anywhere from five to fifteen give them the big year ride and let them ride I'll cover everything I'll cover everything now but so that'd be great we can maybe have one come on yeah it would be great I would love that yeah and you know so and we've we will be working with them through next year so any improvements or suggestions that people want think or like stuff that we missed we're gonna go back out and do another print we're gonna continue working with them and uh because the gravel bike kind of like riding here is evolving as you know OSI purchases more property I understand they bought 500 acres to move the river to ridge north correct um talk to the the OSI legal can can you talk just for a minute about um just for listeners I think people who listen probably know what OSI is but if you could talk just define OSI for us and then a little bit of the relationship between the county and OSI and how you all work together. So OSI's Open Space Institute they are one of the largest um land management and conservancy organizations in the state they are they are by far one of the best endowed but they have played a huge role in conserving and protecting enormous swaths of land especially along the Schwang Ridge it would not look like it looks today unbelievable if it were not for their work. River to Ridge a game changer in town it was enormous they saw that opportunity they did it with their money and their funds and they've been that kind of partner all along and so that's really why I'm excited about what they're doing in Ellenville. I mean it might open up for Ellenville a whole new yeah identity for itself that's a good point.
SPEAKER_01Yeah yeah yeah they could they could have a what kind of what rivals in a good way the the river to ridge on that side of the ridge. Right you know and then to connect those two.
SPEAKER_02So speaking of the River to Ridge North what OSI was saying they did and they purchased land originally it was supposed to go along the walk hill.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_02But now it comes out of the River Ridge parking lot goes up along the walk hill cuts over by Klein Hill goes up in the woods there and runs along Springtown out of sight kind of of the road and it's gonna go all the way up and connect into the rail trail that is that's amazing. Yeah be great they got one landowner who's getting grumpy about it.
SPEAKER_05I'm not naming names it's we'll do that offline and find out who that is.
SPEAKER_02So very exciting so I do this is just another thing quickly I declared New Paul's as the endurance capital of the east because Auburn California declared themselves as the endurance capital of the West so I started and I asked the town could you read this into resolution whereas we have the SOS traffic whereas the gra the gravel declare new pauls the endurance capital of the east rocky ridge so I do a year long community engagement called Big Year New Pauls where you got to do community service you got to do all these athletic feats yada yada yada so I have on the back of my shirt new pauls endurance capital of the East I love that they gotta start putting they put it into resolution? No but I just put it on my shirt I'm like I already claimed it it's not in resolution but if some it's been on my shirt long enough that's are they explicitly not doing it they just haven't done it. Oh come on you know the supervisor have I haven't asked I asked like sure we'll do it and then I had the resolution but then I got tied up I just this is one of many things I need to do. I had it written honestly because that's how it's gonna get done no I know and I could go and they'll do it. I think they'd be happy but I got to get that out there. You do and I had a whole thing is all the whereas is like whereas we rock the ridge cabin challenge new pals okay great love this endurance capital of the East I love it make sure you tell Juan New Paul's endurance capital of the East he's gonna work that into everything he does.
SPEAKER_05How do we get that once one what's the process to get that so we claimed on your website well we would just put that on you'll just say it we would add it to the description of Newports we would probably tag it under the things we're you know that we're doing when we're when we're putting up you know anything about rock climbing Ulster County is home to the endurance capital of the and another event which I'm doing tomorrow that's in Ulster County is beast the Beastmaker. Okay what's that?
SPEAKER_02The Beastmaker is a 12 and a half mile run that encompasses nine rock scrambles in the gunks. So I'm doing this tomorrow with Sheamus Jeff if you want to take the day off of work because you came down with the Beastmaker flu we'll be home in time to get hazel off the bus. I could call in like I got the Beastmaker I can't come so basically I don't want to get too deep that's their event but they're that's a huge event. That's yeah six which is taking off I think it's gonna get big to the point they're gonna have to do something about their start.
SPEAKER_01They the official um they're they're they brand themselves as officially unofficial. Love that and um nine rock scrambles at Mohawk and and then they go about a whole whole path of of the uh different rock scrambles. So it they had like I don't know twenty people that did it on it was a success. Yeah yeah and it's the third the third year and um it seems to be growing and it's it's it's growing it's all very cool and and it's just everything is unofficial there's no winning prize right which is a finish.
SPEAKER_02You just finish and you package well I'm busting that out tomorrow so by the time these people are listening to this I'll have been done with the Beastmaker God willing.
SPEAKER_01That's what people are going to be waiting to hear.
SPEAKER_02Yeah that's that's what they're congratulations is in order we hit the website skeleton. So yeah right or I'm like that guy like I'm crack. So anyway a lot of stuff happens here you know what else happens here at Unknown thing which I'm in which this has been promoted but this is a curmudgeon group of folks that don't want to probably promote themselves fly fishing and fishing in general. No I'm an avid fly fisherman the Asopas Creek is one of the it's a premier destination worldwide at least in this country to come fish. Spectacular but the fishermen are very grumpy and don't like to promote themselves.
SPEAKER_05I agree 100% it's like Ulster County's one of Ulster County's best kept secrets.
SPEAKER_02So I mean we're Frost Valley Lam say it's in Ulster County right on the border at least it is it is in Ulster County we're talking the West Branch the main stem of the NeverSink some of it's in Ulster County it really is it really is and they do like to and even those fishing guides like to keep it quiet. They don't talk about it and they were so pissed off about the trail going in the Ashokan trail and they were crying the blues how you're going to ruin their destination for fishing but then I'm talking to some guy who did Paul Steely White's ride who was involved with that and I mentioned I was a fisherman and he's like do you like the trail I'm like I love the trail. I could ride my bike to places I never could have got to I hop off and I go down the hill and fish.
SPEAKER_05Oh that's great.
SPEAKER_02And they're like you know this is what Trout Unlimited they were crying the exact opposite I'm like yeah they're a bunch of grumpy guys.
SPEAKER_05Yeah that they have a certain perspective. It's so funny because we did an entire photo shoot for fly fishing one time and uh I was just laughing when you said they're grumpy and they don't want people there. So we did this photo shoot only all of us weren't allowed to go the only people that were allowed to go were there were the models.
SPEAKER_02Yeah they were I was like oh my god this is yeah and they're not very not even allowed to go yeah not a they're not exactly a progressive group of folks either.
SPEAKER_05No and but you know that again back to Open Space Institute they are working with the Woodstock land conservancy on this super cool map that's gonna map recreation assets up in that area they're called um purple guide maps have you ever heard of those they're based in they I think they're based out of Pennsylvania. But um anyway one of the things that they're gonna map is f is it is you know access to the creek like where you're allowed to go in. And that was exactly my thought oh god yeah this isn't mine.
SPEAKER_01I don't know I don't know the fishing world at all but but I would think I would guess yeah that that people have a good spot and they don't really want a bunch of other people coming in to take over that spot. Well but I don't know that that fishing necessarily like I can see someone going for a hike and being like oh don't let the cool trail going you have to really know what you're doing to go out and fly fish.
SPEAKER_02I agree I don't think it's something you just pick up and say oh I'm I'm I live in um I'll I live in Brooklyn let's go upstate oh that's exactly what happens and they're out there really yeah so if you go to the Asopas Creek or the Willowemock or the Beaver Kill on a weekend day a week like not this time of year but like say May or June shoulder to shoulder there's got like look at the videos of Pulaski upstate. Yeah so there'll be people from like this length of this basement probably 30 people lined up fishing. Get out of my spot it gets crazy. Oh wow I didn't realize it's a huge tourist business it is a huge tourist no people don't want that the locals like me I mean that'll be it I'm like I don't want to but then again I don't go fishing on a Saturday evening right right you know just like I don't go to Minawasca State Park on a Sunday afternoon necessarily I go on Tuesday. Right. I could do because but it's crowded and it's like nothing against it. I'm fine that the crowds are here right I just choose not to be there with the crowd and I can go less time the thing the difference about fishing and uh cycling or running you just run on the trail. Okay oh so gravel of roads ooh but you go fishing and you're hauling the fish out of there might not come back.
SPEAKER_01To all those naysayers I'm just gonna remind you one point two billion dollars in tax fraction.
SPEAKER_05Right, exactly no one's begrudging them
SPEAKER_01Coming here. It's right. I think they might, but it they shouldn't because one point I'm just gonna keep saying it. Well, I don't begrudge it. $1.2 billion in tax revenue, folks.
SPEAKER_05Well, if we're doing our job, right, and put positioning the assets the right way so that people are respectful.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And we do spend time telling people about Minawasca State Park. You know when it's a great time to show up there at five o'clock at night?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05I agree because it's open till dark.
SPEAKER_00Listen, I'm at Minawasco. These are almost nine o'clock in the summer. I love that people are there.
SPEAKER_05Golden hour. It is spectacular up there. So, you know, we do try to let people see you can experience a lot of things. You don't need to do it at two o'clock in the afternoon.
SPEAKER_02I agree. And you know what? Like, so Jeff, we bought everybody here knows people that own businesses in town. So people will complain about the traffic in New Paul's. I'm like, I can name 10 of my friends who have businesses on Main Street that are so psyched that traffic is people are eating in their restaurant. Well, I agree with that. Staying in their hotel. Drive around town, buddy.
SPEAKER_05Some traffic is good. If you're local, you should be able to figure out how to get around. But you know, the county operates um from the beginning of June through the end of September, something called the Nature Bus. That bus is a free bus that picks people up at the park and ride at the three-way. Then it goes, I think it goes over to, if I remember the route, goes down Henry W Duboise and will pick people up that are that are in um the apartment complexes along there. It winds up on Prospect Street, uh where the gas station is, picks people up there, travels down Main Street. You can flag that bus anytime that you want.
SPEAKER_02This is different than the regular loop.
SPEAKER_05It is. It's completely. It's not the UCAT cat. It's called the Nature Bus and will take people directly. You gotta get on the nature bus to the uh testimonial gateway trailhead to the visitors center at Mohawk Preserve. It'll drop you off if you want at the traps parking lot. It doesn't drive in. It will go straight on next to um to Minawask State Park. Wow. And then it loops back. I never heard of that. Well, I'm gonna send you guys information about it. You guys should jump on that.
SPEAKER_01That should definitely be pumped up more on your website.
SPEAKER_05And the other thing about this is uh because of our agreements with all these places, if you don't have a Mohawk preserved pest, it doesn't matter. You could they are not gonna hassle you if you came off the nature bus.
SPEAKER_00Now that get on the bus.
SPEAKER_05That's huge. Something yeah, same at me. And and um at the state parks, because it's a parking fee that you're paying, and this bus doesn't park. They don't they don't you you don't pay to get in there either.
SPEAKER_02Speaking of state parks in Ulster County, I'm sure you found the boom of the Sojourner Truth quarry pool.
SPEAKER_05Wow. Right.
SPEAKER_02I have not been there. Was that a county-led thing?
SPEAKER_05No, no, you know, again, this was that was Cena Hudson. Oh, another great organization. Cena Hudson purchased that land, which was supposed to be um a very high-end housing development. They purchased that land, then they then they deeded it over to state parks. It's taken all this time for state parks actually to be able to staff it, put infrastructure in. But um, that pool that they put dropped into a rock quarry is absolutely amazing.
SPEAKER_01All my friends were there, said it's beautiful. What a great use of certainly better than a high-end apartment. I mean, we all need more high, but high-end. How about like affordable housing?
SPEAKER_02High end. Yeah, we don't need to hire more high end. Listen, I'm really fighting another rant, Jeff, but I'm gonna stay off the rant. Stay off. I'm staying off.
SPEAKER_05Stay off the rant. But yeah, that was what it was supposed to be. So yeah, no, this is perfect. And I think the only thing that we really need to do, and again, this is the tourism message, we have to help people understand that when you go to Sojourner Truth, you're at a state park, right? Yeah, you're not at like an attraction where it's it because people were un, they were not expecting you could have as much as a three-quarter of a mile walk. I love a state park. Where's a beach and a this and a that? And it's you're rock quarry, folks. Exactly. But we but but that's tourism's job to do a better job explaining to people so that their mindset is there, right? Like you're gonna be, you know, just opened.
SPEAKER_02I do agree with you, but also people can look at a website and see like rock warry, and like you're not walking on Joan's Beach pal.
SPEAKER_05Right. But uh but that was a big complaint from this summer. There were so many people who were like, I took my kid in a baby stroller, and nobody told me that I'd have to push it straight up a little bit.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, people listen, I have no sympathy for that. Yeah, yeah, people would come to Mohawk when they're and they'd be like, I cannot believe that the foliage, the leaves, you told me no one told you on the phone that this was gonna be the peak season, buddy.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_02You're just driving up from New York City and think you're better than all of us and you're yelling at us. Right, right. He's on the rant, folks. Sorry, I'm done.
SPEAKER_05Well, you know, but on the other hand, I will say that there's plenty of them that come up and like think to themselves, I I love it here. And just and Paul, and you know, and honestly, I think that all you guys will relate to this, is what I always say is the best thing anybody can do when they get to Ulster County is go outside and experience something. Either put put your foot in it, put your foot in the sopus creek. Not with a fisherman, I'm just kidding. You know, better yet, go up to Minawasca State Park and take one of those hikes. Because what I tell everybody all the time is when I look at the ridge, you know, what I'm experiencing is every single memory I made on that ridge as a kid growing up here.
SPEAKER_02Listen, it was amazing. When we grew up here, it was the wild stuff that happened on the ridge now. People are like, oh, did you guys experience? No, we drank at the tearpin.
SPEAKER_05That's what we did.
SPEAKER_02Or we would break we would drive up to Minawaska and hang out in the hotel that was abandoned.
SPEAKER_05That's that is exactly right. Jumping off the cliffs. I mean, like that was an everyday.
SPEAKER_02Nobody was riding the bicycle in 1985.
SPEAKER_05No, I tell a story about swimming across Minawaska State Park with one of the Buck girls. I'm about across the lake itself at Minawaska, the whole thing from like the from where the hotel was all the way to the other end, and then swimming back, and there was a lifeguard in sight.
SPEAKER_02I'm glad the state has it. It's beautiful. That's so amazing. I can't, it's uh I think that we live in the greatest place in the world, man.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah. And I do think that. I think that when people come here and they get out and they experience some of that, that's what brings them back.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_05So, well, if they do clog up our roads and they might do this or that.
SPEAKER_02It's important. I like when people are in town. $1.2 billion. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Right. But but they're also building those memories, right? Which is what I want. I want them to love this place as much as we do. Like I really do.
SPEAKER_02I'm gonna listen. Here's something I'm thinking of starting. I'm not gonna, because I have a million different ideas. I'm gonna start offering like an adventure slash go slash informational tour on Saturday nights down in New Paul's downtown. We're like, hey, tourists come out of a restaurant, like we need something to do. Yeah, yes. Oh, 30 bucks, we'll pay this guy LaPole, and I'll be right back. This is what happened right there.
SPEAKER_03Exactly.
SPEAKER_02It's a confession.
SPEAKER_05Hey, this is a confessional's back. Hey, this used to be called Thesis, and let me tell you about what happened there.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's what he wants to do. We did this exactly. People will pay. They will, they want to hear the street. So we did the podcast out at night once called Main Street Confessional. People are coming out of the bar and going to the bar. Oh, yeah. It was pretty cool. It's got a lot of listens. It was about hundreds.
SPEAKER_01We should do it again.
SPEAKER_05You should do it again.
SPEAKER_01I I had a question just to come out of the New Paltz focus a little bit, and and more Ulster County. You know, we all grew up in in the county, and um I grew up not in New Palts, I was in Woodstock.
SPEAKER_02Love it.
SPEAKER_01Cool town? Yeah, it was a great place to grow up. Um the one of the things that we used to do every year, um, and it's I don't think it happens anymore, but it was tubing in the Asopas. Yes. Right? Like that was a cool that was an 80s thing.
SPEAKER_05I loved Harry Jameson and Town Tinker tube rentals.
SPEAKER_01Right. And he had a great operation there, um, especially using that little train that would go from that midpoint spot, which is now by that uh the Emerson Resort, and that which wasn't even there. Yeah, um, and then would take you back, you know, you pile your tube on, just stand around stand on the the caboose thing, and and they would tow you back into town. Um is there any I any plans or any does the county want to get involved in trying to make that a thing again? Not necessarily that that that business, but like tubing theesopus when there's enough water, it's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_05Uh yeah. Well, don't you're they would actually climb yes, the releases in the portal.
SPEAKER_01So uh get in at the portal sometimes, actually. That was if you were smart, you'd go up. That's what makes the sopa such a private.
SPEAKER_05Crazy.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05I mean, that makes yeah, that makes so true story. The Moriello family did tubing the soppas before there was a town tinker tube. Okay. And Glenn knows my sister, Rachel. She actually was, I think, three or four in one of those tubes and got and I won't and I tell you, and got tipped over with my mother, and thank God she had a life jacket on. It was dangerous. It was dangerous.
SPEAKER_01It was hairy, though. It was definitely some hairy spots that you could get in trouble.
SPEAKER_05So what I would say is, so that was back when so that goes far enough back that I don't know if you remember this, but the thought used to be, let's clear the brush out of the out of the creek. You know, it's gonna be it's better for the fish and it's better for us, and it won't, and there won't be as much flooding. So the town used to actually help clear that. Now the ethos in the environmental movement, right, is like stream bed restoration and letting those like right, those spinners, like yeah, yeah, all that used to get cleaned out.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, the the brush is good for the fish and fishing.
SPEAKER_05Right. So anyway, uh I think what happened, because I know Harry, who owned Town Tinker, is that the liability insurance on that just got so prohibitive. Oh, yeah, that they that there's just no way that he could operate it at a profit. And then also simultaneously, I think people changed. And so they're expecting a lazy river. Yeah, and and when and you know, because you're from there, you know what the water does. You know that if you're in a tube, you actually have to paddle, you have to steer. If you don't, you God alone knows what's gonna happen.
SPEAKER_01I mean, there were spots where you'd have to get up and kind of walk through. Yeah, but like there was then you'd be in a spot where you were like getting flipped off your tube, you're hanging off a deer. You're hitting a tree stump.
SPEAKER_03That uh that's that's what made it fun.
SPEAKER_02That's what made it fun. But people don't want that now. They're like, I want the lazy river, and like, can someone bring me a drink?
SPEAKER_05Well, people are far less like they don't have that awareness, and that's kind of part of what we do too, like even with being outside, like just the awareness, and and it's in particular really problematic up in the upper part of the Catskills near where you you grew up. More and more rescues um on trails and peaks that we didn't used to see that on because the only people who used to be doing it knew what they're doing. Well, and they had situational awareness, right? They knew if I don't know exactly where I am, let me be quiet for a minute and let me look around. Right. What can I hear? What do I see? How do I you know how do I navigate this? Because I I know I can do it.
SPEAKER_02That doesn't no people are like, I just took nine gummies, I'm gonna walk in the woods.
SPEAKER_05Right? And and then when you get and then when you get lost or or disoriented, you you actually, you know, you use a satellite phone to call 911 and you make people come out and rescue you. I mean, what? Like but but so all of that has kind of happened. It's good that we have more people outdoors, but we really need to do a better job helping people to learn the things that we knew growing up. Just like I said, if you're lost in the woods, you need to just stop for a minute and try to figure out is there anything here that I can use to reorient myself?
SPEAKER_01So that's got to be a challenge for the for the tourism board. It is because you're trying to bring people here, but then you're bringing it up. If you want to do some of those more challenging feats.
SPEAKER_05Absolutely. And especially as you know, knocking off the Catskill Peaks or the fire towers, as that has become more and more popular, you get less and less people who are prepared to hike. Number one, you know, they go out in their, you know, $300 Chelsea boots and like leg, you know, and burning. Yeah, yeah. You're not the the distance city wise for three miles and the distance when you're heading up Slide Mountain are two two different experiences.
SPEAKER_02No, you're 100%.
SPEAKER_05They don't know that.
SPEAKER_02And then locals, especially in that area, in the Woodstock Olive, Sandakin area, um, they're feeling very much like this needs to be addressed from a safety concern because we keep sending more and more of our firefighters out there to go get people like we're we're run we're in like places, even like middle a wasteing, and you're running out there with hazel and a stroller, but to a large population that's using a waste, that's like the wilds of Alaska. Yeah, that is what you know, that's like the deep forest.
SPEAKER_05Right, right.
SPEAKER_02And you're like, hey, I'm gonna do this quick run, jump in and run home and cut my grass.
SPEAKER_05Right, right.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, right. So that's a thing, right? You know, and I do a lot of hiking in the Catskills, like the I've done the 35 peaks in the winter, and there are people out there. It's like the all the deaths on Mount Everest, right? Right, right. All the deaths have picked up since the 90s when they had people there that are like, I've never hiked a mountain before, but I have $90,000 to hire the Sherpa.
SPEAKER_05Right. And what we're finding is it's particularly dangerous for the people who volunteer to rescue people. Yeah. So, you know, it's incumbent on tourism boards and organizations to do a much better job really educating people. And I will say, I'm gonna give a shout out to the Catskills Visitor Center, which is right on 28, that nobody stops into. It's beautiful, and you it it's beautiful, and the people who run it are really good, and they will give people hints right off the bat of this is what you do to stay safe. And here's the map, and don't lose it.
SPEAKER_01Where where is that on 28? I know it, but I don't know it.
SPEAKER_05It's right before I think it's right before you get to I think it's right before. So they have an outpost in Arkville, but they have one in Mount in Trent Mount Tremper.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_05Right on 28. I think it's before the Emerson, just before the Emerson.
SPEAKER_01Okay for the whole complex. Yeah, they have like on the right as you're heading out. Yeah, they have this big sign, but nothing else because it's you pull in, but you have to pull all the way back.
SPEAKER_05Okay, I know what you're can't see it from the road, but it's a great visitor center. The bathrooms are amazing. And more importantly, they have a lot of things that will help people who you know think they might want to do something. They'll get you to the right hike.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Oh, good. Nice. That's great.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Jeff, do you have some questions you want to get to here?
SPEAKER_01I do. So we we um you know, we ask our guests some of the same three questions. I got one I'm gonna make on the fly. Go ahead. We got um Glenn's gonna add a fourth.
SPEAKER_02Well, remember we did the top three? Yeah. I have a good top three that will fit in. Ask it. What's your top three tourist destinations in this county? Nice.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I love that. Um, so one of them is Bel Air, because of my love for skiing. Yeah, for sure. And how and um how you can see the peaks from the top of there. And um, now that they have a gondola, you don't even need to be a scary, you can just get on the gondola and go see it. Um the we talked about the other one, the Ashokin Reservoir, which for me is is not just amazing to look at, in every season it changes, but the story of how that uh that area brings felt fresh, unfiltered drinking water to the people in New York City to me is amazing.
SPEAKER_02And people that are like your bagels and your pizza, they're the greatest in the world because of this water.
SPEAKER_05Right, right, right, right, right. And then the third is, of course, Minawasca State Park. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's a great list. That's a great list. That spans a big part of the uh of the county.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah, yeah. Spectacular. Yeah, I love it. You know, and in Minnesota, because I was one of those crazy kids, never jumped off those cliffs, I'll say that. Watched my brothers do it plenty of times.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. No, I wish I could have done that. Wild West. Um that's a good top three. Yeah. Nice. I agree. Yep. Okay. Um, so if you had a sandwich named after you, what would be on it?
SPEAKER_05Oh, wow. I think it's gonna have You gotta build the whole thing. I'm gonna build the whole thing. So it's gonna be on really good Italian semolina bread. It's gonna have um some olive paste on it.
SPEAKER_02So, of course, you remember Toscani's.
SPEAKER_05Yes, yes, yes. It's gonna have some olive paste on it. Yeah, and it's probably gonna be your c your classic Italian with sub with um with also oil and vinegar on top.
SPEAKER_01Love the oil and vinegar. Yeah, that's it.
SPEAKER_05That's it. And you need some of those um, what are they, those green, the green coronos? Is that what they're called? Like the peppers?
SPEAKER_01Peppercinis. Peppercinis.
SPEAKER_05I need some of those on there. That's a fine sandwich. And yeah, that's it. That would be it.
SPEAKER_01Beautiful. Yeah. All right. Um, what are we calling it?
SPEAKER_05Uh, we're gonna call it Lisa? No, we're gonna call it Ernie and Rachel's.
SPEAKER_02Ernie and Rachel's for Tuscany's. Okay.
SPEAKER_05Ernie and Rachel's.
SPEAKER_01It was a great jelly.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it was.
SPEAKER_01Um, all right. So last one, a newer one for this season. Um if you had a superpower, what would it be?
SPEAKER_04Ooh. I had it. Um that is such a hard one.
SPEAKER_01Or if you if you feel like you have one, what is it?
SPEAKER_05Um honestly, I think that my superpower is um is being able to uh empathize with people. So I'm very that's that's my superpower. I great. I think that that that's helped me be successful.
SPEAKER_02Perfect. We we won't get as many humble answers as that. I know.
SPEAKER_05Oh, all right.
SPEAKER_02That was well done.
SPEAKER_03Okay, that was really well done.
SPEAKER_02All right, something that most of us, not uh I mean, I don't think anybody here, but there's not enough empathizing with people. It's all about them in our society, I feel.
SPEAKER_05Right, right.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, Lisa, um, thank you so much. Thank you guys for coming on. Yeah, this was fun. Thank you. Thanks for sharing all this information. Thank you.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Tom, thank you, Tom.
SPEAKER_00Tom, technical problem.
SPEAKER_01Take us out. Nice.
